James McDonald, Greg Laurie, Mark Driscoll, and Matt Chandler Together in Elephant Room – Perry Noble Says: “God Didn’t Raise Up Internet Bloggers to Call Out Wolves”


(Lighthouse Trails)

Calvary Chapel pastor Greg Laurie recently joined contemplative proponent Mark Driscoll and other popular figures, including James McDonald and Matt Chandler at the Elephant Room event. Laurie, who has shown public support for Rick Warren in the past, is one of Calvary Chapel’s most popular teachers. In the following video clips of the Elephant Room, you can see some of the interaction that took place at the Elephant Room. One of the speakers was Perry Noble who told the audience ” God Didn’t Raise Up Internet Bloggers to Call Out Wolves.” He said this should be left up to pastors and such. Please refer to our recent article where we address this topic of “regular” non-degreed believers and their role in spotting spiritual deception and warning about it. Links to various video clips of the Elephant Room:

http://jamesmacdonald.com/blog/?p=6449

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27 Responses

  1. Hi Sue,

    Well, I am glad that the LeftEmergents et al approve of me (A Theologically degreed, Pastor, blogger, web owner) in my criticism and calling out of “the Wolves.”

    I appreciate all of you non-degreed believers discerning error and reporting it also!

    Thanks for that Sue.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  2. Thanks Jack!

    I thought that was telling… It’s like..do only Pastors have the Holy Spirit??
    Only those who “rule” can call out a wolf?
    Sounds sort of “pope-ish” to me, doesn’t it??

  3. Hi Sue-

    Thanks for sharing this. Perry Noble??? Does anyone even take him seriously? Other than his buddies, I mean.

    I don’t know who is worse- Ed Young Jr. with his rap videos, or Noble and his arrogance toward people. They are both wolves and need our prayers and our avoidance. If you have never watched them preach, do so and see for yourself.

  4. If calling out wolves was left only to the pastors, very few wolves would be exposed!

  5. That’s right, Glen!!!!

  6. ‘One of the speakers was Perry Noble who told the audience ” God Didn’t Raise Up Internet Bloggers to Call Out Wolves.” He said this should be left up to pastors and such.’

    This is a exactly how cults think.

    Only mother organization can do the thinking.

    Everyone else is to blindly follow and accept whatever is dictated by the higher ups, as they sit on their own version of the Pope’s throne.

  7. I want to add that I am very disappointed in James McDonald, as I was a daily listener for quite a long time back a ways.

  8. Thanks for this. Found the dialectial tension setting up the attack on ‘the little insignificant gutter-snipe people’, quite lame here, but hey, so it goes with the continued attack on those ‘evil entertainment blogs’…as Tim Challis calls discernment sites. I played this several times to catch the derogatory statement made against ‘moms’, but couldn’t hear it over the muddle of all the popes voices. Time to roll up our sleeves once again, go to work and show folks just what scripture says about these things!! As opposed to the guys sitting around in a buffalo room, oops, I mean elephant room, trying their best to pull the wool over eyes.

  9. I am not in the Perry Noble fan club but you guys should watch the whole conference before you rip a guys sound bit. I think that is only fare to all involved in this project.

  10. What a ridiculous comment, that bloggers should not expose false doctrine. The problem is that many pastors have such weak theology, that lay people need to expose wolves. Marc Driscoll sounds like he makes a legitemate point about a fireman saving someone and how it is ridiculous to criticize the method, but when we really examine his point, I can’t help but wonder if the person rescued is really saved and will not die in the not so distant future.

  11. Hi Steve.

    Thanks for your comments. It is crazy to think that only pastors can call out the wolves..

  12. Welll … I’m your dissenter here. I think the point was more that SO MANY PEOPLE disagree with a particular “way” of preaching and therefore call it “false”, rather than understanding that JUST BECAUSE I wouldn’t do it that way, doesn’t make it wrong.

    I think bloggers can expose false doctrine, but I think they must be theologically sound in order to do it. Think speck and plank, here. How do we determine which blogger is on track, and which isn’t? Isn’t it somewhat easier to check a pastor’s credentials than every blogger?

    AND, if you have a problem with someone’s theology, can’t you go to your pastor and ask him to look into it? If you can’t trust your own pastor, perhaps that’s where the truest problem lies.

    It’s easiest to tell the difference between false leaders when someone is vague or ambiguous. Be clear on what you believe. Ask others to do the same. Email a pastor and ask, if you can’t tell… “Make the MAIN thing the PLAIN thing.”

    • I agree the main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things with regards to hermeneutics or the art of interpretting scripture, however, there are many who teach a gospel that is very watered down and the word “repent” isn’t even brought up. It is a sort of “easy believism”. This is the point I was making with regards to Driscoll’s illustration of the fireman saving a victim and his method being questioned. I brought up the question of whether or not the victim would actually survive. Maybe the victim wasn’t given a proper amount of oxygen and as a result dies a short while later. I’m not questioning God’s sovereignty, since His will and purpose will be accomplished, but as Christ’s embassadors, we better proclaim His gospel correctly.

      • Woops Typo I meant Christ’s ambassadors(2 Corinthians 5:20). Paul declared in Ephesians 6:20 that he was an ambassador in chains for the sake of the gospel. I’m sure you would agree that the importance of correctly proclaiming the gospel message was something Paul took very seriously and my point is, “so should we”! I agree Jamie, that sound theology is crucial. I have some experience with a pastor when I was newly saved, that would actually comment that he hated theology and was suspect of anyone who had been to seminary. When I began to study theology and apologetics,after being called on by some Jehovah’s Witnesses, rather then be supportive, he felt threatened by my desire to study. In today’s postmodern society, sound doctrine is seen as devisive and when error is pointed out, the one pointing it out is criticized.

  13. Hi Sue,

    Just a quick question to Steve.

    Steve, proper Biblical preaching of God’s Word is the only way to go.. the whole counsel of God.

    But I would ask you to define two terms you use so we will know from whence you come.

    The words:
    “repent”
    “Easy Believism”

    I see these phrases often used by others without definition and am curious how you define them. Thanks.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

    • Hi Jack
      There is nothing at all mysterious about these 2 words. Repentence is the Greek word metanoeo and has to do with a complete turning around in the opposite direction. A good illustration begins in Matthew 21:28. “A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said. Son go work today in my vineyard. He answered “I will not; but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said I go sir; and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of the father…”? Acts 20:21 tells us to repent first and then put our faith in God. All too often the message of the Gospel is weakened and the word repent is seen as offensive. Jesus was very clear that anyone wishing to be His disciple shoud count the costs. In Luke 9:23 He makes His point very clear “if any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me”. Easy Believism is the antithesis of what Jesus taught. I hope this clears up the point Jack.
      Blessings

  14. Hello Sue and thanks for letting Steve and me discuss these very vital topics.

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for your reply. However, I would disagree with your definition of Repentance.. in that, a proper study of the Greek word “metanoeo” in salvation is to “think differently — a change of mind.” Your definition or any other would seem to add the works of turning. For instance in your illustration.. the son — from not working in the vineyard to working. He changed his mind and then worked.

    Best illustrated in salvation, repentance is changing one’s mind, for instance, from a preconceived idea of religion to Jesus Christ who has already done all the works necessary for salvation. He, by dying on the cross and rising from the grave, has done it all — we simply believe in Him for eternal life.

    I would disagree also about your phrase — “EasyBelievism.” The phrase is usually a pejorative but that is just exactly what Jesus taught. Many Scripture passages, in context, prove that; one of which is John 3:16 “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jesus never taught that it was hard to believe in Him.

    In Ephesians 2:8-9 we see we are saved By Grace through faith — and not of works.. There are too many passages to mention here but we know Christ did all the work on the Cross for our salvation — we simply trust Him that he did everything necessary for us.

    Your statements all speak of discipleship — not salvation. Following Jesus is a voluntary act that should follow salvation and should be done by believers after trusting Christ. Works are desired of believers but not necessary to gain or keep salvation.

    You use phrases that describe discipleship, not salvation, for instance, “wishing to be His disciple should count the costs.” That is for service to our Savior. And “if any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.” That is likewise voluntary service. As Ephesians 2:10 says, to believers:
    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them.”

    Steve, it seems what you describe is HardBelievism — and I don’t see any Scripture that advocates we should make it hard for the lost to believe in Jesus Christ. Even a little child can make that decision to trust/believe in Jesus for Heaven.

    I appreciate the discussion.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

    • Hi again Jack
      I appreciate your point , and I agree especially with your last statement about “even a child can trust and believe in Jesus for Heaven”. Matthew 18:3 makes that point clear. I think you are confused about what I’m trying to say however. First of all Jesus is Lord. The only thing that is hard is when we do not submit to Him and His will for our lives,Jack. If you are saying that when we accept the gift of salvation, we don’t have to be His disciple, you are wrong. We are saved by the grace of God through faith not of works, lest any should boast, but true faith and salvation is accompanied by a desire to do His will. In Luke 6:46 Jesus asked the question why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things I say.
      Here is my personal testimony Jack. I used to be a hopeless drug addict and a thief. When I accepted Jesus as my savior I did it with a desperate broken heart and had a desire to submit my life to Him. If I thought for a minute that I could say a prayer and accept Jesus as my savior, but still mess around with drugs and resist His will for my life, I would probably be dead or in prison. Thanks for your discussion Jack.
      Blessings Steve
      And thanks for the blog Sue

  15. Dear Steve.

    Thank you for sharing your beautiful testimony Steve. It’s wonderful to hear how the Lord has worked in your life.

    Sue

  16. Hi Sue :-)

    I rejoice with you, Steve, that the Lord saved you. Praise be to His name. Have much faith in His grace and power to keep you!! He will. God bless!

  17. Hello Steve — and thanks for your patience Sue..

    Steve I appreciate your testimony — you made the decision to trust Jesus as your Savior. Wonderful!!!

    In my case, drunkenness and plenty other things were endemic for me. But I am thankful that when I trusted Christ as my Savior, I understood that Jesus wanted to save me “just as I am.” No Scripture was quoted telling me I must quit drinking, clean up my life, etc to trust Christ as my Savior. Most important, I was immediately secure in the knowledge that my salvation rested in Jesus Christ and His finished work alone — not on my behavior before or after I trusted Christ as my Savior. Scripture says that and I never doubted it.

    Just as God’s Word promised, the moment I trusted Christ, God’s Holy Spirit indwelt me (yet I “felt” nothing). He was, however, guiding and convicting me of my behavior and disobedience. Yet it was not until about six months later while at a bar with friends that I looked around at my buddies and realized they were lost and without Christ. I ached to tell them about God’s Free gift of salvation — but I knew they would laugh, mock and not listen to me because I was getting just as drunk as they. I was distressed because my lost friend’s souls were at stake.

    I was convicted that night to quit drinking – and have not had a taste since then — 46 years ago. I was a disobedient Christian who, until then, had refused to follow God’s Word. Quitting drinking did not insure or secure my salvation — I was secure by my faith in Jesus Christ — He alone paid for all my sins.

    No one’s carnality (including mine) can be cured by adding good behavior, following or good works to salvation — nor will good works keep anyone’s salvation. That is the polar opposite of God’s Grace (unmerited favor). It was eventually evident to me that He simply wanted me to understand and do what Scripture says I SHOULD do for my Savior. I finally realized, understood and determined to DO what Scripture says, for example, in Ephesians 2:10:
    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto [for the purpose of] good works, which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them.” (It says we SHOULD walk. I thank the Lord the Bible does not say we must walk in good works to be or stay saved. If that were true, no one would ever qualify).

    You said to me, If you are saying that when we accept the gift of salvation, we don t have to be His disciple, you are wrong. Steve, we disagree!!

    A disciple (Greek “mathetes”) is a learner or pupil. We are not automatically a disciple of Jesus until we determine to learn of and follow Him. An unsaved person can be a disciple, such as Judas the “lost” disciple, who was appointed a disciple but called by Jesus “the son of perdition.” So we should never confuse salvation with discipleship. Every believer in Christ SHOULD be a disciple of Christ but, tragically, many aren’t.

    Some might consider a life of discipleship a hard burden — but we would do well to remember, Christ offers us the opportunity to share His yoke as we serve Him. It is such a blessing. I am weak but He is strong:
    Matthew 11:29-30 Jesus says:
    “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

    Steve, thanks again for the discussion..
    And Sue, I appreciate your forbearance with this old retired Bible preacher – a sinner saved and kept by God’s Power and Grace. (1 Peter 1:5)

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jac

    • Hi Again Jack:
      First of all praise God for your testimony. It sounds like we have both experienced the loving hand of God in our lives. I agree whole heartily that God loved us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us as Romans 5:8 declares. And I absolutely agree that we can’t add anything such as good behavior to gain God’s merit (Isaiah 64:6 makes this point). In fact Romans 11:6 tells us “And if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace…”. We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves; it is a gift. Not of works, lest any should boast (Eph. 2:8-9). Also Gal. 2:16 makes the point that we are not justified by the works of the law. However Jack, you are misunderstanding what I’m trying to say again by what you have written. I thoroughly believe that when I first got saved I was unaware of all the implications involving salvation, but scripture is clear that we grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18). Maybe that is the point you are trying to make to me and I’m misunderstanding you.
      After rereading your prior comment (before this one), you stated an interesting and very revealing point to me. After a further study on the word repent, you are partially correct in the definition of changing one’s mind. However a change in the intellect with no change in behavior illustrates an evidence of dead faith. In the book of James, we find in the second chapter beginning in verse 14, and summed up in verse 26 “For as the body without spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead, also”. Yes, again the bible couldn’t be more clear that we are not saved by works, but the point James makes is that good works are evidence of true living faith. Afterall, even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). Paul makes an interesting point in in 2 Timothy 2:19 “Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure,having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity”. Another interesting point is made in 1 Corinthians 15:2 when speaking of the gospel”By which you also are saved if you keep in memory what I preached…unless you believed in vain”. See Jack, there is clearly a faith that does not save. Let’s look at Acts 8:9-26 and Simon the sorcerer. He clearly believed intellectually and was even baptized, however his motive was selfish, in that he viewed Christianity as a commodity to be added to his bag of tricks. Peter removes all questions concerning Simon when he tells him “your money perish with you, and your heart is not right with God”. One more point Jack, I told you I agreed with what you had said concerning the faith of a child as Matt.18:2-3 makes eveident, but if you read on in verse 4, Jesus makes the point of a child’s ability to humble themselves. I believe that is the bottom line Jack, we can’t make Jesus fit into a mold we create ourselves, we submit to His will and accept Him into as hearts as both Lord and Savior.
      Thanks Again Jack and May God Richly Bless You. Thanks again Sue.
      At this point I really feel that I’ve said enough.

  18. Sue — I promise this is my last statement on this issue, regardless — and I appreciate your patience.

    Steve.. I likewise will discuss this no further..

    Yes, we know salvation is only by Grace through faith.. which we will never lose. We are not justified by the works of the law. We agree on all these yet you contradict yourself.

    Needless to say, I disagree with your flawed interpretation of those scripture verses (and others) implying that one could have an “intellectual faith” and yet then have a “dead” faith. James is addressing eternally secure believers — those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ. (James 1:2a – “My brethren…”)

    Please, I beg you, when you share your faith — do not make a person think that their eternal salvation could be gained or compromised in any way by their behavior. Don’t put them under any law — let them understand God’s Grace!! As you quoted the Bible, “Grow in Grace”!!

    Steve, I pray the Lord will also bless you as your share your faith with the lost.

    Thanks again Sue — I pray the Lord will continue to bless your Blog ministry.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  19. Steve and Jack.

    Please don’t worry about posting. That’s what the blog is for. Feel free to discuss. No worries.

    In Him.
    Sue

  20. Steve and Jack
    You are both missing a vital truth found throughout the epistles. The question is summed up in Romans 6:2. “If we have died to sin, how shall we continue to live in it “?As a born again believer we are no longer slaves to sin, but are now slaves to God. Paul said that “I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I but Christ lives in me”(Gal.2:20). “If any man be in Christ he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold all things are new”(2 Corinth. 5:17).”For the love of Christ constrains us…” (2 Corinth. 5:14). So maybe a good question for us all is “Have we died”? Scripture informs us in Romans 7 that in the words of Paul “For I delight in the law of God after the inward man. But I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind…” Do we delight in the law of God ? In living a life that is pleasing to Him, who redeemed us? Do we declare with Paul whenever we sin (and as believers we still do sin from time to time) “O wretched man that I am” ? Do we have the pattern of 1 John 1:9 in admitting our sin to God ? These are good indications that we have passed from death into life. Incidently, Jack the word “should” in Eph. 2:10 and also in Romans 6:4 does not mean we have an obligation, it means there has been a divine accomplishment. “Walk” equals daily spiritual conduct. 2 Peter 1:3-4 addresses this very well. We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness that we might be partakers of the divine nature. The issue is not salvation vs. discipleship, it is justification that is directly linked to sanctification. Afterall Romans 8:29 tells us “For whom He did foreknow He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His son”.
    In Christ

    • Thanks for the interesting post Sue. I believe Greg Laurie is a godly man who has been through alot recently with the sudden death of his son. I’m not overly familiar with his theology, but I believe he is a good evangelist.
      Blessings

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